On the Popes, Heresy, Etc:
This material was occasioned on another media source from my words as quoted in purple font below. My interlocuters words will be in dark green font. Without further ado...
If we go by the long established understanding of the term heresy, neither Honorius nor John XXII were heretics.
The Holy Spirit prevents popes from being heretics, schismatics, or apostates and to claim otherwise is to deny the doctrine of indefectibility of the Church of which the pope is the visible head as well as the guarantor of ecclesial communion.
False.
Actually, everything I said above is true.
There is a difference between objective material heresy... And the sin of formal heresy. of which we've had several popes
We are talking about the promulgation of heresy. While there are a lot of material heretics about (and I can guarantee that you are a material heretic!), the Holy Spirit even protects the pope from promulgating material heresy. Its part of the whole "I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail" prayer of Jesus to Peter. Or at least that is how the Popes themselves have seen it:
"Peter, and like him all his successors and heads of the Church, has the mission of encouraging the faithful to put all their trust in Christ and the power of his grace, which Peter personally experienced. This is what Innocent III wrote in the Letter Apostolicae Sedis Primatus (November 12, 1199), citing the text of Luke 22:32 and commenting on it as follows: ‘The Lord clearly intimates that Peter’s successors will never at any time deviate from the Catholic faith, but will instead recall the others and strengthen the hesitant’ (DS 775). That medieval Pope felt that Jesus’ statement to Simon Peter was confirmed by the experience of 1,000 years." [Pope John Paul II]
But hey, what do they know right?
The inability to distinguish this difference is the error common to both papolitors and sedevacantists.
And now we have the smart aleck so-called "traditionalist" engaging in calumny. To take the position that the pope cannot be a heretic, schismatic, or apostate is to take seriously the doctrines of Church indefectibility, the promise of Jesus Christ, the belief that his prayer for Peter's unfailing faith would be granted, etc. But why listen to me when Vatican I is so clear on this:
“Indeed, their Apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers, and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well that this See of St. Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: ‘I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren’ [Lk 22:32].
This gift of truth and never-failing faith was therefore divinely conferred on Peter and his successors in this See so that they might discharge their exalted office for the salvation of all, and so that the whole flock of Christ might be kept away by them from the poisonous food of error and be nourished with the sustenance of heavenly doctrine. [First Vatican Council: Dogmatic Constitution Pastor Aeternus]
You either believe this or you do not. And how the gift of truth and never-failing faith could possibly be conferred on Peter and his successors where they either apostasize{1}, are a schismatic{2}, or are heretical{3} is something you will twist yourself into pretzels trying to excuse it away in the sort of disingenuous fashion not uncommon to many who call themselves "traditionalists."
There is a reason why you will not find any Saints or Doctors who have publicly proclaimed any popes were heretics with even eminent Doctors like Francisco Suarez who though they argued hypotheses of popes possibly being heretical, personally believed that God's "sweet providence" would not allow the pope to either teach or fall into error. (Based again on Luke 22:32.) The same position was espoused by St. Alphonsus Ligouri who said "We ought rightly to presume as Cardinal Bellarmine declares, that God will never let it happen that a Roman Pontiff, even as a private person, becomes a public heretic or an occult heretic.’ ”
Now we cannot read souls so whether there is private material heresy in anyone is not something we can determine. However, public actions and statements are another matter. If at any point in history a pope was a public heretic in any manner whatsoever (formal or material), a schismatic, or an apostate then they have deviated from the faith and there is no coherent way around this.
What would such an event mean? Simply, this would mean that the prayer of Jesus failed, the promise of Matthew 16:18 was false, the 519 Formula of Hormisdas{4} was a lie, St. Agatho I, Innocent III, St. John Paul II and other popes who spoke of the See of Peter being always preserved from blemish were all to a man delusional liars. This does not mean the popes are impeccable of course or that they cannot make limited errors.{5} However, it does mean that they cannot in any respect deny the faith (heresy), deviate from ecclesial communion (schism), or renounce the faith (apostasy). If they could do any of these things then this whole notion of the Holy Spirit protecting Peter and his successors is a giant farce. And that is the bottom line really.
Notes:
{1} Read: renounce the faith.
{2} Read: are separated from the communion of the Church.
{3} Read: denying dogmas of the faith or doctrines proximate to them.
{4} Required for reunion in the sixth century and promulgated to the whole church by the Fourth General Council of Contantinople IV in 869 and the First General Council of the Vatican in 1870.
{5} Or that they will always make the best decisions in a given situation involving matters of discipline, church government, etc.