"None Dare Call It Conspiracy" Dept.
My words will be in regular font below.
Rome is going after another religious community...and again...its not about heresy or morals...if you're faithful...these guys in Rome will find you...
My words will be in regular font below.
Rome is going after another religious community...and again...its not about heresy or morals...if you're faithful...these guys in Rome will find you...
I want to focus for a moment on this tidbit.
if you're faithful...
Faithful to what though? It too often sounds like so-called "traditionalists" merely want to do whatever they want whenever they want and have no oversight from Rome whatsoever on anything.
Or to be blunt: basically mouth the words of obedience to the pope but then act like a bunch of little Luthers where the rubber of abstraction meets the road of reality.
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What is so false about it? I have yet to hear a supposed "traditional" order which does not bitch and moan every time they are asked to do anything they do not want to. I am reminded of the words of St. John of the Cross when he spoke of spiritual gluttons:
"You will find that many of these persons are very insistent with their spiritual masters to be granted that which they desire, extracting it from them almost by force; if they be refused it they become as peevish as children and go about in great displeasure, thinking that they are not serving God when they are not allowed to do that which they would. For they go about clinging to their own will and pleasure, which they treat as though it came from God; and immediately their directors take it from them, and try to subject them to the will of God, they become peevish, grow faint-hearted and fall away. These persons think that their own satisfaction and pleasure are the satisfaction and service of God...
These persons have the same defect as regards the practice of prayer, for they think that all the business of prayer consists in experiencing sensible pleasure and devotion and they strive to obtain this by great effort, wearying and fatiguing their faculties and their heads; and when they have not found this pleasure they become greatly discouraged, thinking that they have accomplished nothing. Through these efforts they lose true devotion and spirituality, which consist in perseverance, together with patience and humility and mistrust of themselves, that they may please God alone. For this reason, when they have once failed to find pleasure in this or some other exercise, they have great disinclination and repugnance to return to it, and at times they abandon it. They are, in fact, as we have said, like children, who are not influenced by reason, and who act, not from rational motives, but from inclination...
These persons who are thus inclined to such pleasures have another very great imperfection, which is that they are very weak and remiss in journeying upon the hard road of the Cross; for the soul that is given to sweetness naturally has its face set against all self-denial, which is devoid of sweetness. [St. John of the Cross: Dark Night of the Soul Book I, Chapter IV (c. 1580)]
I do not see what more I could add to what that Doctor of the Church noted above.
or if you dont you arent paying attention...
Or maybe I am simply not paranoid and automatically distrustful of anything coming out of Rome.
If you stand out in any way because you arent simply status quo for the liturgy or theology as its been since 1965....
There are not two churches, only one. I am now reminded of the words of Cardinal Ratzinger from The Ratzinger Report circa 1985:
"I see no future for a position that, out of principle, stubbornly renounces Vatican II. In fact in itself it is an illogical position. The point of departure for this tendency is, in fact, the strictest fidelity to the teaching particularly of Pius IX and Pius X and, still more fundamentally, of Vatican I and its definition of papal primacy. But why only popes up to Pius XII and not beyond? Is perhaps obedience to the Holy See divisible according to years or according to the nearness of a teaching to one’s own already-established convictions?"
The same principle applies to your choice of the year 1965 as opposed to some trads choice of 1958 or others who choose an earlier point in time. Again, "[i]s perhaps obedience to the Holy See divisible according to years or according to the nearness of a teaching to one’s own already-established convictions?"
they come after you...
As I said earlier, I have yet to hear a supposed "traditional" order which does not bitch and moan every time they are asked to do anything they do not want to.
.they are targeting orders who simply offer the New Mass in Latin...etc...
Something tells me it is not as simple as that.
its not even necessarily about tradition...its about *any* idea that perhaps the liturgical reform went to far...
See my prior comment.
when they did their first or second purge no one could say for sure...
"[P]urge"? You speak of the Vatican with the same language usually reserved for totalitarian despots like Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, or the Soviet Union.
but now...after several...its immediately apparent that this is simply bad will...
See my prior comments.
and the ignoramus joao braz de aviz is often involved...
You mean a Cardinal who was given his red hat by Pope Benedict XVI?
Seriously, I do not see how my original much briefer statement was not spot on. I will close with some words of St. Francis de Sales:
Most people permit themselves absolute latitude in criticising and censuring rulers, and in calumniating nationalities, according to their own opinions and likings. But do you avoid this fault; it is displeasing to God, and is liable to lead you into disputes and quarrels. [St. Francis de Sales: Introduction to the Devout Life Chapter XXVIII (c. pre 1622)]
Or maybe I am simply not paranoid and automatically distrustful of anything coming out of Rome.
If you stand out in any way because you arent simply status quo for the liturgy or theology as its been since 1965....
There are not two churches, only one. I am now reminded of the words of Cardinal Ratzinger from The Ratzinger Report circa 1985:
"I see no future for a position that, out of principle, stubbornly renounces Vatican II. In fact in itself it is an illogical position. The point of departure for this tendency is, in fact, the strictest fidelity to the teaching particularly of Pius IX and Pius X and, still more fundamentally, of Vatican I and its definition of papal primacy. But why only popes up to Pius XII and not beyond? Is perhaps obedience to the Holy See divisible according to years or according to the nearness of a teaching to one’s own already-established convictions?"
The same principle applies to your choice of the year 1965 as opposed to some trads choice of 1958 or others who choose an earlier point in time. Again, "[i]s perhaps obedience to the Holy See divisible according to years or according to the nearness of a teaching to one’s own already-established convictions?"
they come after you...
As I said earlier, I have yet to hear a supposed "traditional" order which does not bitch and moan every time they are asked to do anything they do not want to.
.they are targeting orders who simply offer the New Mass in Latin...etc...
Something tells me it is not as simple as that.
its not even necessarily about tradition...its about *any* idea that perhaps the liturgical reform went to far...
See my prior comment.
when they did their first or second purge no one could say for sure...
"[P]urge"? You speak of the Vatican with the same language usually reserved for totalitarian despots like Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, or the Soviet Union.
but now...after several...its immediately apparent that this is simply bad will...
See my prior comments.
and the ignoramus joao braz de aviz is often involved...
You mean a Cardinal who was given his red hat by Pope Benedict XVI?
Seriously, I do not see how my original much briefer statement was not spot on. I will close with some words of St. Francis de Sales:
Most people permit themselves absolute latitude in criticising and censuring rulers, and in calumniating nationalities, according to their own opinions and likings. But do you avoid this fault; it is displeasing to God, and is liable to lead you into disputes and quarrels. [St. Francis de Sales: Introduction to the Devout Life Chapter XXVIII (c. pre 1622)]