"He's Blinded to [the Gospel]...And He Failed [in Church History]" Dept.I have sought on this weblog to avoid certain rabid and ignorant so-called "Catholics" who think they if they tell a lie enough that it will magically morph into the truth. The following is from a well-known (in Catholic circles) "apologist" who has seen his credibility shot full of holes. Since it is on a discussion list and as these kinds of lies are common amongst self-styled "traditionalists", let us destroy them in order to reveal where people like this REALLY stand.
I was going to change the names but I will leave them in. I
previously held back on these kinds of direct exposes because of a friend who is involved in this mess. But
my friend's unwillingness to address issues I have raised with him basically means that there is no point in beating around the bush any longer with regards to a certain "apologist" for silence implies consent. And I want it made clear that I in NO WAY support the drivel of the
CAItanic. Hence this response in three parts to serve the common good and to point out the kinds of lies spun by this crowd.
Jesus told the Samaritan woman she didn't know who she was worshiping, and after Jesus told her of her sins, she accepted him as the true Messiah. That's a far cry from what the Pope and Cardinals are telling the Jews today. They are told not to worry about accepting Jesus as the Messiah. They are not told to repent of their sins of false worship. They are told they have their own covenant without Jesus. Sorry, Art, that's a false gospel.Do we have to go over the distinction between ignorance by negation and ignorance by opposition again??? Bob you are FAR more guilty than the average non-Catholic because you are obstinately resisting the truth. In that light you have NO basis for being critical of others who worship in ignorance which is not dispelled simply by
catechises. To "know" someone does not imply a passing familiarity in Scripture, it implies a very deep and
substantive understanding - integral understanding if you will. This is why the Pharisees were castigated for being whitewashed tombs and why "
trads" are the modern Pharisees: they do not realize that belief is not something manufactured by ritual. It is far deeper and far more substantial then that.
Get this through your head. The only reason they are saying the Jews can be saved is because THEY HAVE THEIR OWN COVENANT, not because they may be in invincible ignorance. This is an unwarranted dichotomy you have set up here. The Jews both possess ignorance about Christ but are also in a special covenant with God which has not been revoked. You quote Acts 17 and ignore Acts 21. You also ignore Romans 11 and explain away the literal text as any Protestant would John 6. I am frankly not impressed.
The Apostles and Paul in Acts 21 deliberately sought to show that Paul was faithful to the Jewish law by undergoing a
Nazarite vow and offering the Temple sacrifice in accordance with the prescriptions of Torah. This was done because the Jews of Jerusalem had heard a rumour that Paul was saying that JEWS did not have to be circumcised according to the perpetual covenant of Genesis 17. The response of the Apostles and Paul was to rebut this rumour and show that Paul was a practicing Jew and that he did not say that the Jews were free from the covenant of circumcision. The GENTILES were because they were children according to the promise. The Jews as children according to the flesh were not. And I challenge you to find for me ANY biblical passages that stated that the Jews were free from this obligation.
To them the Old Covenant is the ORDINARY way, not an EXTRAORDINARY way of salvation.Sigh...the New Covenant is hidden in the Old and the Old is revealed in the New. The Jews have an obligation on them that the Gentiles do not have and as long as this is denied, the Jews as a people will not accept a Messiah who they view as blatantly contradicting the very Law which He supposedly was supposed to fulfill.
A covenant is a legal and binding agreement that provides benefits totally outside of invincible ignorance. The covenant was established by God and irrevocable. Read Romans 11.
Invincible ignorance is for those who DON'T HAVE A COVENANT.Says YOU. Who the hell are YOU Bob to say what is and is not??? I am frankly not impressed with your grasp of
covenantal issues. Also, I am unaware of any Church teaching that specifies what you are saying and knowing how poorly you understand concepts such as "consensus of the Fathers" or "norms of theological interpretation" I will not even bother asking for your proofs. (Any more than I would expect a Chick supporter to accept the Catholic explanation of why veneration of relics is not idol worship.)
Telling the Jews they have their own Covenant and don't need to convert to Christianity is not the gospel. No one has said that the Jews do not need Christ for salvation. But conversion has a history of being as abused a term as
zeal. The fact that "conversion" to the Jews is
synonymous with coercion - even
violent coercion sometimes and history demonstrates this vividly - is a fact that cannot be evaded. How is this chasm to be bridged??? Well there are those of who favour gaining the trust of the Jews and persuading them
genteely and in a manner more fitting of a proper execution of zeal for the salvation of souls. And there are also those who apparently think the "solution" is treating them like human cattle and (if necessary) dragging them to the font by their hair as in "forced conversions" in days of yore. It seems pretty clear which approach you favour.
I extend to you what I am now calling "
Bonocore's Wager". Tell me how many Jews you get to explicitly accept Christ by standing in a synagogue and telling them "accept Jesus or burn in hell". I highly doubt you will find any to accept your offer. Guess everyone is "willfully obstinate" to the preaching of Apostle Bob right??? Hardly.
Telling pagans to pray to their false gods for spiritual favors is not the gospel.And telling "
trads" to pray to their talisman "Jesus" is??? At least the pagans as a general rule do not know better. And anyone who thinks for two seconds about it would recognize that wrong faith is better than no faith provided that the wrong faith is not a result of a deliberate act of the will.
Is salvation by grace alone or by human works and knowledge??? Apparently you think it is the latter two. If you did not you would not make such ridiculous statements.
To be continued...